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Subject: Re: + Camera Raw Feature Requests +



I'll try to be constructive and point out what I perceived as a stomping, but it's probably best if we say our piece and move on to other topics so I'll probably go quiet on this topic after this and the excellent moderator we have here will probably clean some of the chatter up at some point.

First, Ramon's posting to Gunder said that he could set ACR itself to produce:

over-sharpened, over-contrasty, over-saturated image, and compress the
low end of the curve in order to hide the noise in that range




if he wanted to. That seemed like a slam and I took as an implication that he must be an idiot for wanting that in the first place. I decided to jump to his defense since I thought there was a real point to his request that wasn't getting listened to and/or understood.

Then the following line in a response to my initial message:

But ACR can already emulate the over contrasty, over saturated, black
levels stomped to the ground look that the in-camera JPEG processing gives
you.





But it's your choice if you want to do that much damage to your picture.




is the one that really felt like a stomping. I read it as, "if you're as dumb as you sound like you are by asking for this, go ahead and ruin your pictures".

I didn't see any attempt to understand why the poster thought the request might be useful and, in fact, both postings were just trying to convince us we were dumb for even asking.

Here's how I would have liked to have seen a response to Gunder's posting.

---------------

First of all Gunder, welcome to the forum and I'm glad you are trying out Adobe Camera RAW.

In the current state of things in ACR, you will probably have to do significant tweaking in ACR if you want to generate the same kind of pictures that Canon does with their JPEGs and you may need to learn quite a bit about ACR before you can really do that as well. Some of that tweaking, you could set as the default in ACR and some of it will have to be tweaked on each individual photo or at least on groups of photos. To date, the focus of development in ACR has been more about giving you control over these settings and making for an efficient workflow in setting them than it has been about automatically producing in-camera-like JPEGs.

I'd suggest one of the excellent books about ACR like Bruce Fraser's book "Real World Camera RAW with Adobe Photoshop CS2". It's an excellent book and after reading it you will really start to understand how the different ACR controls work, what they do and how they interact with each other. You may even be able to change the defaults in ACR to produce images closer to what you want without so much individual tweaking.

You may also want to experiment with shooting RAW+JPEG in your camera (setting your camera so it produces both if it supports that). That way you could selectively pick a few RAW images to play with while still using the JPEGs for many others. That's one way that some people get started with RAW.

Now, about your original feature request. I agree with you. A bunch more users would be able to use ACR if it was able to start out with a default "new user mode" that produced images similar to the in-camera JPEGs. I would have loved that myself when I first started. Adobe appears to be trying to move in that direction by both supporting white balance as an in-camera setting that works in ACR and by promoting the DNG RAW file format that, if camera makers would support it for a RAW format, would make it more practical for many more in-camera settings to be supported by ACR. Until either that happens or specific manufacturers agree to document more of their formats and algortithms, it will be difficult for Adobe to support many more in-camera settings. It would be useful and I hope it happens someday, but it doesn't look imminent to any of us onlookers because of the implementation complexity.

I hope that you are able to get successfully started with ACR because once you really learn how to take best advantage of the controls that it has, you can produce remarkable images. RAW will probably always require more learning and may always be a little more work, but should give you more of an ability to optimize your images as a reward for that extra work. I, myself, process a few hundred RAW photos a week on average and some weekend events I end up with 600-800 RAW photos. I now find it more efficient to process my photos as RAW than as JPEG because the workflow tools in ACR and the ability to make mass corrections/changes is so much easier in ACR than it is in the CS2 editor itself. But, it took me awhile to get that proficient. I started by hand tweaking each one in Elements, reading books on how to do it better and hanging out in various online forums with folks who were a lot more skilled than I.

Good luck getting started Gunder, and if you have any more questions about ACR, please don't hesitate to ask in the right forum here - that's what the forums are here for.

--John

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