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Subject: Re: ACR v3.2 D2x white balance still not correct



To Jeff Kohn
The reason people find the Nikon Capture more 'logical' is that it relates to the hardware and settings available on their cameras. I may be wrong, and please feel free to correct me on this, but I have yet to see a camera that requires the white balance/temperature to be set by using two controls as Camera Raw does.

To Jess
Thanks for you analogies, they do go someway to what we are trying to get over to the guys at Adobe but I feel we are fighting a losing battle.

To Ramón (with apologies for the incorrect accent in my earlier reply)
I am not asking for a number which makes me happy, I am asking for a number which matches the hardware setting of my camera. And although I am not a moderator of this forum I would ask that we try to keep the tone a little more civil. If other shooters including myself don't quite understand replies to an issue that is obviously so technical then don't belittle them with sarcastic comments just back off and let others try to explain with more clarity. As someone once said "When you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he's not doing the same."

To Jeff Schewe
Thanks for you indepth reply, as someone who holds your photography and comments with high respect I find this probably the most sensible reply to date, however as you ask I feel that I should answer you fully.
I am not comparing JPEG files at any point in this process, we are simply talking about the ability of software, from any manufacturer, to produce a result that it consistent in the data it supplies to the end user. In this case Adobe has split the white balance into both temperature and tint but this is a concept that, although working great for those who write about colour theory, doesn't work well for the many shooters who are much more used to seeing a single figure white balance/temperature.

An example of our point being this. I have worked over 17 years in the imaging and print industry at a high level including many years working with Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign and Quark. In each of these applications we are allowed to input the type size in points. Each application will then create a file that on output gives the same size text for the same size input. This means each programmer is working to a standard that the end user has understood clearly. The fact that we all measure point-size from a set baseline and the manufacturers of the software realise this is the accepted method is what makes this who system work. If each manufacturer used a different reference point to measure the type from and reported this as their own definition then we would never be able to guarantee consistency across applications.

This is the point that I think people are missing. No matter how Adobe wish to calculate the colours from the information we give them from our cameras, they should be able to allow us view that data in a format that we are used to seeing which in turn allows us to make consistent judgement as to the suitability of a particular setting for reference. Currenty, and please feel free to correct me if I am incorrect, Camera Raw is the only RAW convertor that splits the white balance into temperature and tint, and in doing so ends up supplying data that does not match what the user expects.

I am running out of ways to explain why this is such a big deal to many shooters but I hope that this post may stir someone into explaining why Adobe has taken a route that for many of us seems to be inconsistent with the rest of the industry. I also place an amount of blame at Nikon's door for encrypting the D2x white balance info in the first place and have written to them at the highest level to express this. So you see I'm not out to bash Adobe or Thomas or anyone else, I am simply trying to improve the current working environment for many shooters who rely on Adobe's software for their living.

To Anyone replying to this thread.
Just to give a more balanced view could those who have responded so far and anyone who responds in future please mention very briefly what experience they have and what cameras they shoot with. This is a great help on forums such as Nikonians.org were each user has a profile and this gives responders the chance to ensure that they are addressing someone with the relavant information. This is not suggesting the a Canon shooter has no place here, it is just so that we get an idea how each manufacturer is being handled.

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